Sony Welcomes the Elite

[big isy]

lol, I love it.

Now they're thinking. (http://www.joystiq.com/2007/03/27/sony-welcomes-xbox-360-to-elite-hd-experience/)

[blazsox]

Kudos Nintendo. They never say a word. Kudos.

[UNSCleric]

I'm sure the grin will be wiped off Sony's face once they look back at the sales numbers for the consoles.

They're probably actually crapping themselves once again, since The Elite is still cheaper than the PS3 by a long shot, and offers double the HDD capacity, not to mention way more exclusives and quality online.

[DJSteel]

but you still have to consider that if you want HD-DVD it's still around the same price...

[blazsox]

Well if the rumor of $480 is true. Add on $200 you got a $680 system.

By my calculations.

680 > 600

[DeaconBlade]

since they're all for the HD era and such....i guess they've opted to now include HDMI cables then? :lol: sure Sony...you believe in it so much that you include what it takes to utiltize it huh...lol

[DJSteel]

lol..

[blazsox]

I dont see what the big fuss is about HDMI cables being packed in. You can get HDMI cables for $5-7 at monoprice.com. I got mine there and its just as good as the official one, only $50 cheaper. HDMI is only useful for 1080p sets, and wasnt it a gamers complaint that not everybody is 1080p so why is Sony pushing it.

Now I believe they shouldve included component cables though - I felt they shouldve been in there.

[DJSteel]

i don't have 1080p set but i have hdmi...it's the best connector for digital video or audio

[blazsox]

Neither do I - and I got an HDMI for the audio part, but I feel it wasnt a necessity to be in the bundle.

[big isy]

I'm sure the grin will be wiped off Sony's face once they look back at the sales numbers for the consoles.

They're probably actually crapping themselves once again, since The Elite is still cheaper than the PS3 by a long shot, and offers double the HDD capacity, not to mention way more exclusives and quality online.

wait, are you offended by this? You just came off as a little annoyed which is why I'm asking.

[DJSteel]

hdmi is video and audio...dvi is just video... check it out if you aren't using it for the video...

[DeaconBlade]

my point is that to say you believe so much in HD and all this, you should've included some form of cable out of the box. i don't care either way really...i love HDTV...my 360 does HDTV. i don't know where this stupid HDMI crap came from. component does me just fine.

[blazsox]

I'm using it for both, but I bought it primarily for audio.

[Mikewarrior]

This is what Sony is bacially saying...

Sony - "We are so good, Microsoft is stupid!"

Sony - "We only cater to the Elite person, all other 99% of the population better work longer hours to be capable of buying such high-end products to utilize it‘s strengths"

That's the gist of the whole article, but yet Sony didn't put a scalar in the PS3... So if people don't have the best of the very best, they are screwed, or have to spend thousands to utilize those Elite options.... Idiots Sony is!

[DJSteel]

you read everything one direction...the do have a less system for people who want less...but it still has a hdd...

[DeaconBlade]

ya know Mike that's a pretty good point. it makes me think of little Suzie and her parents working two jobs only being able to afford the Core. it's about choices and i think MS has that on point.

[blazsox]

And Microsoft doesnt think of themselves as superior? Please, look at Windows.

Now thats a business moral - lets go into business thinking we suck. "Hi, I'm Ted, I am competing to get the job here at (wherever). I would just like to say I suck at what I do. I'm slower than the rest, I daydream way too often. I can careless what my boss tells me, I'll simply play Solitaire all day."

Now thats how to get into business.

[DJSteel]

ya know Mike that's a pretty good point. it makes me think of little Suzie and her parents working two jobs only being able to afford the Core. it's about choices and i think MS has that on point.

so why is the core going away after the new one launches???

[Mikewarrior]

so why is the core going away after the new one launches???

That was a rumor.

[DJSteel]

so they are going to have 3 skus??

[Mikewarrior]

you read everything one direction...the do have a less system for people who want less...but it still has a hdd...

No, they no longer have that $499.99 system available.

Also, go see what options they have in Europe.

[big isy]

The rumour is that the current premium will become the new core and the core will exist no more.

But then rumours are nothing to write home about.

[Mikewarrior]

so they are going to have 3 skus??

How many different i-Pods are there? Or how about Sony Bravia LCD HDTVs?

[DJSteel]

i'm just wondering...

[big isy]

No, they no longer have that $499.99 system available.

Also, go see what options they have in Europe.

So they could pump out more consoles, they focused all their power on getting 60gigs as they were the ones that sold highly in the US and japan.

[Mikewarrior]

The rumour is that the current premium will become the new core and the core will exist no more.

But then rumours are nothing to write home about.

True... the CORE is there so that Microsoft can easily hit that $199.99 price point a lot sooner than Sony can price reduce the PS3 at $499.99 = $200 (360) vs. $500 (PS3)

It would be dumb for Microsoft to get rid of the CORE.

[DJSteel]

that make 0 sense...then again it is no surprise...

[Mikewarrior]

So they could pump out more consoles, they focused all their power on getting 60gigs as they were the ones that sold highly in the US and japan.

Not true... The 20 Gig PS3 was in higher demand in the U.S. and that's why many 60 Gig Ps3's are sitting on store shelves. Sony got rid of the 20 Gig PS3 ($499.99) because of COSTS. It was said that Sony was losing more money on each $499.99 PS3 sold.

Sony screws over the people that wanted the lower option to pad their bank account. Funny, how people didn't complain when Microsoft was losing their ass on every Xbox sold... Until they dropped support.

[Karma]

True... the CORE is there so that Microsoft can easily hit that $199.99 price point a lot sooner than Sony can price reduce the PS3 at $499.99 = $200 (360) vs. $500 (PS3)

It would be dumb for Microsoft to get rid of the CORE.

Stores in the UK are already dropping the price of the PS3 from £425 to £350. I agree that it'll be a long time before we see a PS3 get as low as the core though.

[Mikewarrior]

that make 0 sense...then again it is no surprise...

Yes, it's to no suprize that you don't get it.

[blazsox]

Dont you mean the Premium?

Because comparing the PS3 to the Core is like comparing a lesbian threesome to some fat dude masturbating.

[big isy]

350?! where?!
I've seen the PS3 for £399 but £350 is really something else.

[DJSteel]

neither company will drop their prices to that level until they are an the black.. I guarantee that.. so they've got a LOT of time before that happens...

[Mikewarrior]

Stores in the UK are already dropping the price of the PS3 from £425 to £350. I agree that it'll be a long time before we see a PS3 get as low as the core though.

Supply & demand... The supply is there without the demand to sell out of consoles at launch. Stores/SONY are doing all they can to get systems sold. Sony wants them to sell as fast as possible to get the word out (Positive Media) that the PS3 is a HOT selling system that everyone wants

[blazsox]

Again, no shit. Its called business.

Lets bring a product to the market that nobody wants and brag thats it not selling.

"Hello everyone, I'm Jack Trustee from Poop'n'Scoop. We are proud to tell you today that our new product, the Shit in a Bag, is not selling at all. We would like to say to the two people who have bought our product that we are upset. We were hoping for no profit....because, thats the way business works."

[Mikewarrior]

Dont you mean the Premium?

Because comparing the PS3 to the Core is like comparing a lesbian threesome to some fat dude masturbating.

To your Elite attitude... To others that don't have the "High-End" need that you do, it's an option that gets them the capability to play games like Halo 3/Ninja Gaiden 2/Fable 2/Bioshock... etc.

[blazsox]

I was referring to Karma's post where Karma was saying it would take a long time for the PS3 to be the same price as the Xbox 360 core.

[Karma]

350?! where?!
I've seen the PS3 for £399 but £350 is really something else.

Some Tesco stores dropped it to £350 the day after launch. My local Gamestation was putting them out at £399 today. The strange thing is, just down the road at Game they were still selling it at £425. I always thought they were basically the same store.

Despite the alleged high number of consoles sold in the UK overall a lot of retailers were expecting the PS3 to completely sell out and it hasn't. There's some panicking going on over the number of surplus units left on the shelves. The likes of Tesco and Asda especially are concerned because they displaced Wii orders for extra PS3 units and are considering it a bit of a balls up.

My best friend is a manager at Tesco.

[DJSteel]

To your Elite attitude... To others that don't have the "High-End" need that you do, it's an option that gets them the capability to play games like Halo 3/Ninja Gaiden 2/Fable 2/Bioshock... etc.


so how is a person with a core supposed to get the free maps.. oblivion expansions...etc...

[big isy]

I have a couple friends working at a local Gamestation and they told me that even at £399, they (retail store) would still make a profit.....thats some major jippage going on. They sold out over the weekend.

As for Tesco's, local one still has 'em for £425.

EDIT: you get rep for being British :D

[Mikewarrior]

neither company will drop their prices to that level until they are an the black.. I guarantee that.. so they've got a LOT of time before that happens...

The 360 has already been out 15 months... Once the 65nm chips get mass-produced, the costs are going down for Microsoft. Sony has 3 things against them from being able to price reduce the Ps3 anytime soon = Year later/More expensive/Losing more $$$ per console sold... It will take them much longer to price reduce the PS3 to $499.99 in the U.S. than Microsoft to price reduce the CORE to $199.99

I'll bet you on that.

[Mikewarrior]

so how is a person with a core supposed to get the free maps.. oblivion expansions...etc...

Like we GOLD members do. A silver LIVE membership still allows DLC.

You don't know that?

[Karma]

Dont you mean the Premium?

Because comparing the PS3 to the Core is like comparing a lesbian threesome to some fat dude masturbating.


Absolutely accurate description.

But since Mike used the Core as the lower end of the value scale I compared the PS3 to that.

Like I said, a long time. If ever.

[blazsox]

MS wont lower the price of the Core considering its already lower than the PS3. They are out to make a profit, so why lower the system NOW when it can still make a bigger profit. A couple years from now, sure, lower both systems when manufacturing costs are much lower - but why now? Sure, from a competition standpoint its a great idea. But for a profit (what companies are out to get). Heck no. MS has leverage right now on the market - they control a big part of it while Sony and Nintendo play catch up. They are not going to simply stop taking advantage of that with a blockbuster like Halo 3 around the corner that will sell more systems.

[DJSteel]

The 360 has already been out 15 months... Once the 65nm chips get mass-produced, the costs are going down for Microsoft. Sony has 3 things against them from being able to price reduce the Ps3 anytime soon = Year later/More expensive/Losing more $$$ per console sold... It will take them much longer to price reduce the PS3 to $499.99 in the U.S. than Microsoft to price reduce the CORE to $199.99

I'll bet you on that.

obviously they will be done before Sony.. since they were out first...but if they are adding in the new *rumored* elite 360...then ms is effectively losing more money than Sony...

[Mikewarrior]

MS wont lower the price of the Core considering its already lower than the PS3. They are out to make a profit, so why lower the system NOW when it can still make a bigger profit. A couple years from now, sure, lower both systems when manufacturing costs are much lower - but why now? Sure, from a competition standpoint its a great idea. But for a profit (what companies are out to get). Heck no. MS has leverage right now on the market - they control a big part of it while Sony and Nintendo play catch up. They are not going to simply stop taking advantage of that with a blockbuster like Halo 3 around the corner that will sell more systems.

I never said right now... But I believe it will happen a lot sooner than Sony can price reduce the PS3.

[big isy]

Like we GOLD members do. A silver LIVE membership still allows DLC.

You don't know that?

You need a HDD to get that content which is what DJ was referring to. Silver/Gold membership has nothing to do with it.

[Mikewarrior]

obviously they will be done before Sony.. since they were out first...but if they are adding in the new *rumored* elite 360...then ms is effectively losing more money than Sony...

And you know this for a fact?

[blazsox]

I never said right now... But I believe it will happen a lot sooner than Sony can price reduce the PS3.

Not necessarily. MS lowered the price of the Xbox before the PS2 lowered, and they were losing more money because of it. Like I said, MS has more leverage therefore they are less leniant on lowering price. Sony however is not. They want more marketshare so due time they might be more willing to lower the price in hope they can make more profit to help out with the price drop.

It all depends on software - thats where a company gets the ability to lower price faster than others.

[Mikewarrior]

You need a HDD to get that content which is what DJ was referring to. Silver/Gold membership has nothing to do with it.

Well, people have to pay for that Elite package if they want that Elite experience... Right, Sony?

[Karma]

I have a couple friends working at a local Gamestation and they told me that even at £399, they (retail store) would still make a profit.....thats some major jippage going on. They sold out over the weekend.

As for Tesco's, local one still has 'em for £425.

EDIT: you get rep for being British :D


It's been a patchy launch IMO. Some places selling out, other places unable to give 'em away. Allegedly some very poor sales for the PS3 in other parts of europe too.
Different to what we've grown accustomed to with past launches.

It'll be interesting to see what the games sales figures are for next week.

[big isy]

And you know this for a fact?

Isn't it obvious? We know for a fact that both the 360 and PS3 will be causing their companies to lose out. With MS bringing a third more advanced SKU, it would just increase the loss value. It may help in the long run with bringing in more gamers though.

[big isy]

It's been a patchy launch IMO. Some places selling out, other places unable to give 'em away. Allegedly some very poor sales for the PS3 in other parts of europe too.
Different to what we've grown accustomed to with past launches.

It'll be interesting to see what the games sales figures are for next week.

Well, Resistance and Motorstorm topped the charts last week despite only having two days of sale (Friday and Saturday) so they were pretty good. As for the sales across Europe, they allegedly sold over 600,000 but since theres no unified chart system it;'s hard to find out for sure.

[Mikewarrior]

Not necessarily. MS lowered the price of the Xbox before the PS2 lowered, and they were losing more money because of it.

This Gen is not last Gen, and Sony isn't Microsoft... Also, the PS3's price is more than the 360's, but the Xbox was the same price as the PS2.

You are comparing apples to oranges, my friend.

Microsoft has leverage unlike Sony THIS GEN... In case Sony starts to sell better, Microsoft can & does have many options to hit Sony where it hurts.

[big isy]

Well, people have to pay for that Elite package if they want that Elite experience... Right, Sony?

You're bang on the money there, save for the lack of a method of viewing HDDVD flicks in the actual Elite which is something Sony got right.

[blazsox]

Have I not said MS has leverage - did I not say that at least twice.

And with leverage comes greediness which is why I say dont always assume MS has the first move. It can easily be the other two competitors (have we forgotten Nintendo here?). The Gamecube sold like hotcakes when it lowered down to $99. They put the pressure on to Sony (who had the leverage then), and MS who was gaining momentum but was still competing with the GC.

[Mikewarrior]

You're bang on the money there, save for the lack of a method of viewing HDDVD flicks in the actual Elite which is something Sony got right.

Not every person lives in a Elite world... So Sony is dead wrong.

[Karma]

Isn't it obvious? We know for a fact that both the 360 and PS3 will be causing their companies to lose out. With MS bringing a third more advanced SKU, it would just increase the loss value. It may help in the long run with bringing in more gamers though.


You have to offset some of that potential loss against the massive success of Live's Marketplace, the revenue from peripherals and the fact that Halo3 (if it delivers) will definitely be the spur for a lot of current xbox users to finally move to the 360. Bringing in more gamers definitely improves the profit factor for Microsoft when it comes to clawing back the console production cost. The 360 operates in a second market now with stuff like DLC and XBLA. Every new 360 user has the potential to be exposed to that second market.

[big isy]

Not every person lives in a Elite world... So Sony is dead wrong.

You realise they're substituting the Elite with the premium after a while? MS seem to think everyone lives in the Elite world.

[Mikewarrior]

Have I not said MS has leverage - did I not say that at least twice.

And with leverage comes greediness which is why I say dont always assume MS has the first move. It can easily be the other two competitors (have we forgotten Nintendo here?). The Gamecube sold like hotcakes when it lowered down to $99. They put the pressure on to Sony (who had the leverage then), and MS who was gaining momentum but was still competing with the GC.

You are still comparing Last Gen to This Gen, when Consoles were not even close to the same Price/user base/game library... then, as they are now.

[big isy]

You have to offset some of that potential loss against the massive success of Live's Marketplace, the revenue from peripherals and the fact that Halo3 (if it delivers) will definitely be the spur for a lot of current xbox users to finally move to the 360. Bringing in more gamers definitely improves the profit factor for Microsoft when it comes to clawing back the console production cost. The 360 operates in a second market now with stuff like DLC and XBLA. Every new 360 user has the potential to be exposed to that second market.

I do agree with you to some extent there. MP has provided a high source of income for MS. But given a year, would you expect Sony not to deliver on this?
ThePS3's online service already has titles surpassing anything the 360 can offer on Live. Tekken, GT and more are outstanding titles and priced at the same price as most 360 games to boot.

[Mikewarrior]

Someone take this fun bet... I'll bet anyone here that the 360 outsells the PS3 in the U.S & Europe during the months of September, October, November, December when there isn't any so-called hard to find systems.

[DeaconBlade]

You realise they're substituting the Elite with the premium after a while?

i doubt that part of the story is true. :peace:

[big isy]

The Elite will be limited t oa set amount. After the limited edition versions are sold, the Elite will then be white and sold as the premium SKU. My theory.

[DeaconBlade]

The Elite will be limited t oa set amount. After the limited edition versions are sold, the Elite will then be white and sold as the premium SKU. My theory.

i don't think your theory is right. :flower:

[big isy]

Well, we know it'll be limited right? And then it should be switched with the Premium and the premium reduced. UNLESS, they keep three SKUs. Do you know something you're not telling us? ;)

[DeaconBlade]

don't i always know something i'm not telling? :lol:

[big isy]

Time for the pliers to come out. You're gonna talk, we have ways to make you talk :evillaugh:

[DeaconBlade]

nah....i'm in Texas...you're in the UK...i'm not worried haha

[big isy]

Well, then......expect a present through the mail. I just remembered you're sending me stuff....I should be careful lol

[Mikewarrior]

UNLESS, they keep three SKUs. Do you know something you're not telling us? ;)

That's what I think... There are a small group of people that actually have HDMI inputs on their HDTVs, and many HDMI inputs on 1080P HDTVs don't accept 1080P... Also, how much % of the population actually have 1080P HDTVs or even HDTVs at all?

[big isy]

is HDMI only good for 1080p? (I'm a n00b at HD stuff)

[Mikewarrior]

is HDMI only good for 1080p? (I'm a n00b at HD stuff)

No, but I'm going by what Sony says & forces in Blu-Ray.:)

Sony is forcing Blu-Ray on around 80% non-HDTV owners... Does that make sense?

[DeaconBlade]

the majority of the noise around HDMI is only about 1080p Isy. so as you can see, it really isn't a majority concern as most televisions don't support it...not to mention that most don't have an HDMI set. i know i don't. if you do, you're in the minority for sure.

[UNSCleric]

My TV has two HDMI ports and I don't give a crap about HDMI. It offers no increase in visual or audio quality.

[big isy]

Well, then why add it this late in consoles life? Future-proofing?

[DeaconBlade]

to give another choice to the consumer in that area of need. i liken it to different models of the same BMW. you'd have 3 BMW choices.

[UNSCleric]

Well, then why add it this late in consoles life? Future-proofing?

Probably to shut Sony up once and for all. Sony has a lot of drones brainwashed that HDMI matters, so just like they did with all the launch console problem hype, Microsoft is saying, "Fine, here you go." and shutting everybody up. I love it.

[DeaconBlade]

i'm afraid what they'll concentrate on now Cleric is "oh no...well i want an HD-DVD drive so i can watch movies directly from the console and not separate...OR well i want an HD-DVD drive included" even though no 360 game is produces on an HD disc.

my point is that people always find something to complain about. always.

[Sirharper]

LOL...too funny.

As I stated in episode 5 (and Deacon agreed)...360 going out the door without HDMI was their biggest mistake.

I don't fault them for not including HD-DVD, it was too new a year and a half ago.

[DJSteel]

And you know this for a fact?

well if they are losing money on the premiums...and this is going to be bigger and better...then obviously they will be

[big isy]

i'm afraid what they'll concentrate on now Cleric is "oh no...well i want an HD-DVD drive so i can watch movies directly from the console and not separate...OR well i want an HD-DVD drive included" even though no 360 game is produces on an HD disc.

my point is that people always find something to complain about. always.

Too right they're gonna complain. I could care less about HDDVD but the fact is, once you have a tv that allows HDMI and 1080p you're gonna want to watch HDDVD's on it.

[UNSCleric]

well if they are losing money on the premiums...and this is going to be bigger and better...then obviously they will be


They aren't losing money on the premiums, they haven't been for a long time now, nearly a year from what I remember.

[DJSteel]

so after 5 months of selling premiums..they were not in the red any longer???

[DeaconBlade]

it wasn't quite 5 months...but they no longer are.

[big isy]

So they're making a profit? Or are they breaking even?

[Sirharper]

Not even close to either Biggie...

Manufacture costs vs. Total Production Costs.

If you solely counted the cost to make 360's then there is no loss but if you (rightly) add in the R&D, support, marketing, etc...then 360 continues to be a loss leader.

These facts were not lost on Wall Street and on shareholders at annual report time and at the last shareholder meeting.

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/752/Microsoft-in-profit-despite-360-losses

http://www.netscape.com/viewstory/2006/10/13/xbox-losses-how-much-is-too-much/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.businessweek.com%2Finnovate% 2Fcontent%2Foct2006%2Fid20061013_283856.htm%3Fcamp aign_id%3Drss_topStories&frame=true (http://www.netscape.com/viewstory/2006/10/13/xbox-losses-how-much-is-too-much/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.businessweek.com%2Finnovate% 2Fcontent%2Foct2006%2Fid20061013_283856.htm%3Fcamp aign_id%3Drss_topStories&frame=true)

Overall the Xbox program is still over $5 billion in the red and continues to climb, although the rate of loss is slowing. It is a mathmatical certainty that the division will still be in the red after 360's lifecycle is complete.

Saying the word profit and Xbox 360 together is erroneous on every level. Saying it is profitable involves limiting one scope of view not to include all business considerations. That is not real-world business thinking.

[Sirharper]

Now before people jump me...I disagree with this statement...but I find it highly interesting an analyst would view it this way:

Quotes:

"It appears to me that Microsoft sees the writing on the wall – Blu-ray is going to win the format wars"

"Microsoft's release of the Xbox 360 Elite validates Sony's focus on capturing the early market for high-definition entertainment"

"Microsoft's move is an endorsement of high-definition output, and its inclusion of HDMI validates that Sony's initial strategy was correct"

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=23840

[DJSteel]

it all depends on the amount of money these analysts get from the either sony or MS... I can tell you out right that analysts, when speaking about products usually get paid off either way...

[Sirharper]

Absolutely. That fact hits home sometimes closer than you realize.

Thats why most links that people quote on here are suspect. I try to find legit news sources like AP, cnet, Business Week, WSJ, Money, Forbes...

...could be why view differs from those that get their info from blogs. Just sayin.

[big isy]

MCV is very good IMO. Love it.

[Sirharper]

MCV is very good IMO. Love it.

I hadda show love for out Uk friends. LOL

...they have association with AP.