If true - This would cause me to stop supporting Microsoft.

[Mikewarrior]

Okay so there is some nasty talk starting to circulate around the interwebs that MS is forcing devs to charge for premium DLC for games and some for XBLA content. More fuel to the fire was recently (yesterday) brushed upon by the 1UP Yours podcast about 1hr 20min in here:

http://zdmedia.vo.llnwd.net/o1/Podcasts/032307.mp3

1UP Yours crew claim to have played the next DLC for Gears of War and say it's effin fantastic however Epic (Cliffy and Rein) is pissed at MS for not wanting to release the DLC as free but instead "forcing" a price for it.

Also, Geometry Wars: Retro Evolved was set to be free from Bizarre Creations however MS didn't want them to and they agreed to the lowest price point of 400 pts. In addition: (credit goes to a Master Ninja from GAF)


Quote:
Back in November Pat Wilson, developer at Garage Games, announced that their team had just finished making a FREE downloadable update (that featured bug fixes, 11 new multiplayer maps, and new gametypes) and that it was in Microsoft’s hands for certification. Weeks later in his blog, Pat explained to fans why the free content will NEVER be made available. (The site he blogged at, angrydev.com, is no more, but you can still find the info he posted on numerous sites) On the record, Garage Games says "...we are unable to come to an agreement with our publisher for the Marble Blast Ultra update." Seeing as Garage Games is both the publisher AND developer of Marble Blast Ultra, you need to read between the lines. The gist of Pat’s blog says Microsoft won’t allow them to release free content for their game, but he doesn’t go into what their motivation might be, but allow me to.

Microsoft better let the real deal be known and fast... Or I will sell-off my 360 and all my games.:curse:

[blazsox]

Not surprising if true.

[DeaconBlade]

so you actually think that a developer is fighting or upset because their content can't be made FREE? :lol: i don't know about you but in this business, you don't fight to get your stuff free.

this is pointless.

[Mikewarrior]

Not surprising if true.

You know what really pisses me off... People act like its nothing to spend $15 for GRAW DLC, or $30 for OBLIVION that I already paid $70 for. However, if people keep buying into this crap then sooner or later games will be $60 half done, and the DLC other half will be another $60.

You wont notice it since Microsoft is smart enough to start with small amounts and people will eat it up saying "BUT IT'S ONLY $60, IT'S WORTH IT... IT ADDS 50% MORE TO THE GAME!"

[Mikewarrior]

so you actually think that a developer is fighting or upset because their content can't be made FREE? :lol: i don't know about you but in this business, you don't fight to get your stuff free.

this is pointless.

Then you don't know EPIC... They make all their content FREE for their games.

[blazsox]

I never bought any game DLC yet except for the PGR3 Style Pack.

I now have the Chapter 2 DLC content for GRAW because it came free in the new OXM. I wont pay $15 for crap that shouldve been there in the first place.

I never paid for any of the Godfather crap - or any EA crap in general.

I am simply saying its not surprising if true (which I doubt there is any truth in it) because the goal of a business is to make money. I know it, you know it, the world knows it.

[Mikewarrior]

I never bought any game DLC yet except for the PGR3 Style Pack.

I now have the Chapter 2 DLC content for GRAW because it came free in the new OXM. I wont pay $15 for crap that shouldve been there in the first place.

I never paid for any of the Godfather crap - or any EA crap in general.

I am simply saying its not surprising if true (which I doubt there is any truth in it) because the goal of a business is to make money. I know it, you know it, the world knows it.

Yes, but it's funny that Sony is giving out a lot of FREE stuff by way of DLC & Online... And games like Gears of War/OBLIVION & GRAW have already made 10X what they put into them. Plus the fact that they came out incomplete in the first place. What am I paying $60 to $70 per game & $50 a year for LIVE for? = Half-ass shit?

It's that kind of shit that pisses me off.:mad:

[Mikewarrior]

Gears of War DLC to be free
Developers at Epic Games say, "We always take care of our customers; we always give them stuff for free"; details on shooter's downloadable content still a mystery.
By Tim Surette, GameSpot
Posted Dec 14, 2006 4:41 pm PT
Given Gears of Wars' success and its pedigree, downloadable content for the game isn't so much a question of if it will happen as when it will happen. Back in August, Epic Games vice president Mark Rein admitted that the studio was already planning downloadable content, but he wouldn't go into specifics.

Epic has been very tight-lipped about what it has planned for the shooter on Xbox Live Marketplace, but now we know one fairly important detail--the content will be free.

Speaking with Spike TV after the network's Video Game Awards (where Gears won four awards), Epic Games president Mike Capps was asked about how the company was going to keep Gears a top seller. He quickly replied, "We always take care of our customers, we always give them stuff for free, and we're going to keep doing that forever. That's how we do it. This is Epic."

He added that the content had been in development long before the game was released but did not divulge a timetable of when it will be released.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6163240.html?page=3

Well that just settels it... Microsoft, you are crapping on your fans if you charge for it!:curse:

[blazsox]

Its just how the business works. Its another reason why I refuse to spend $60 on a game. I dont go over $45 for a game purchase. I refuse to. Last gen, the only game I felt that was worth the full price of $50 was GTA SA because of all the extra stuff that came in the game to do (side mission wise). Other than that I felt no game lived to $50. Sure there were some good titles, but nothing worth full price.

[DeaconBlade]

Epic always makes their PC content free perhaps...but the Marketplace is a new beast. things change. but hey i'm all for free stuff...if Epic can make it happen..cool...but Microsoft doesn't impose prices on content. the service has already been paid for up front in some regard. so if it's free or not, Microsoft has already been paid.

[Mikewarrior]

Its just how the business works. Its another reason why I refuse to spend $60 on a game. I dont go over $45 for a game purchase. I refuse to. Last gen, the only game I felt that was worth the full price of $50 was GTA SA because of all the extra stuff that came in the game to do (side mission wise). Other than that I felt no game lived to $50. Sure there were some good titles, but nothing worth full price.

He added that the content had been in development long before the game was released but did not divulge a timetable of when it will be released.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6163240.html?page=3

And they will charge for it... an unfinished game? For all I know it was Microsoft's idea to charge for Horse Armor in OBLIVION (Something that was worked on during the game itself) If true... And Microsoft charges for Gears of War DLC, they just lost a fan & supporter of the 360 system. :(

"Marketplace" is now called "Milkitplace"

[DeaconBlade]

ya know i always tell people that if you don't want it, don't buy it. how is anyone being forced otherwise? when the GRAW content came out, i didn't buy it. it was too much i thought. and guess what...now that it's free, i'll get it :lol:

[Mikewarrior]

and guess what...now that it's free, i'll get it :lol:

Yeah, and that's a good way to piss-off initial buyers who forked over the $15 thinking it will never be FREE.

The way Microsoft has handled their business isn't going to win them the console war in the end... That's the bottom line. Unlike oil companies, they don't offer a product or service that is integral to how we all live (well, maybe some people). All this greed and fleecing is just going to end with a lot of dissatisfied customers who turn to other sources of entertainment.

Really, Microsoft should look at DLC as advertising. People like free stuff and will flock to Live for it. Companies like Epic don't have to charge for DLC development time because their profits from Gears more than covers it. Why not give the DLC out for free and get more people to buy your game? It's all in how you look at it and Microsoft doesn't generate a whole lot of consumer loyalty when they charge for stuff like gamerpics. I can't feel too sympathetic for them right now and I won't be purchasing a whole lot in the marketplace until they change how they provide and price content.

[blazsox]

For those who bought the GRAW content shouldve known that would happen eventually. DLC loses value just as games do. I am selling my unwanted PS2 and Xbox games for $3-5 a piece with no additional shipping fee. I bought most of those games for $30+ each, plus shipping fees. This applies to any piece of merchandise.

[Mikewarrior]

Games are going in a bad direction with DLC/Patches/Marketplace... Time to start playing all those old Xbox games.

Even waiting for a game to get to $30 isn't worth it if you get a half-assed so-called finished product. Then they charge $5 here & $10 there until you get the rest of the game from Milkitplace... I was afraid games were going to go in that direction one day, but I didn't think it would be this soon.

[Mikewarrior]

Man, this really sucks.:(

[Kinjutsumaru]

All this whining is pointless, because those who want the content will pay for it . Nobody is being forced to do anything.

[Mikewarrior]

All this whining is pointless, because those who want the content will pay for it . Nobody is being forced to do anything.

Yet, I already paid $70 for a half-assed game with weak online modes that the developer wants to make it available for FREE... Yeah, I should be happy to pay or not get it at all.:wtf:

[Mikewarrior]

This is how I feel...

http://fulladix.com/xb.gif

[blazsox]

Some Advil should help that.

[big isy]

just don't buy the game if you feel you're getting ripped off. You're never forced into a decision.

[Mikewarrior]

just don't buy the game if you feel you're getting ripped off. You're never forced into a decision.

Yeah, I always wanted to buy a $400 system and not buy the games for it.:wtf:

[big isy]

Not every game rips you off. If you honestly feel that next-gen gaming is that hard on your cash then you made a mistake buying a console.

[Mikewarrior]

Not every game rips you off. If you honestly feel that next-gen gaming is that hard on your cash then you made a mistake buying a console.

I'm starting to feel that way... With developers keeping content out, and Microsoft also charging for it.

Withholding content, or rushing an unfinished game out before it's complete to charge you at a later time is bullshit!

[big isy]

I concur. But I never buy any added content and the missing stuff usually relates to online options which I rarely use :)

[Sirharper]

The only major problem I have with DL content is the type that comes on the disc and then they charge you to unlock it.

[UNSCleric]

It is true that Microsoft doesn't want developers giving out free content. I always assumed it was because they not only wanted a % of the money that is to be made, but also didn't want to eat up Live's bandwidth with free content.

I don't really care enough about most DLC to be angry about it. Every now and then there's something I'll get, but I don't think I've bought much except for the PDZero and Lost Planet maps.

[SuMeRiaN]

I heard this as well today but I have my doubts on its authenticity. If Epic wants to give away free DLC its up to other developers to keep up, not for MS to interfere. Its unlikely I will go back to GOW for any extended time but I am looking forward to see what Epic has to offer. With Cliffy's comments about DLC being free I am also interested in seeing how this unfolds.

When the GRAW map pack was released I never purchased it or played the game again.

If MS is going to play the BW card, then epic should charge 50 pts and state clearly the money is going to MS.

[DeaconBlade]

yeah someone needs to just pony up and say 'hey, this is who and why we're charging'

[blazsox]

Well technically the Gears first map pack did cost us money, only that cost was covered by The Discovery Channel.

[Sirharper]

MS sure has no trouble giving away crap videos for free that gobble up huge blocks of bandwidth. They are the biggest downloads on Live.

[DeaconBlade]

the biggest download is the Shadowrun beta...we had to download the entire friggin game!

[blazsox]

Nah, the worst was E3 when they introduced background downloading AFTER E3 was over and done with - and the videos were 3 weeks old.

[Sirharper]

The Halo3 teaser that caused Live to be locked up like a drum.

[DJSteel]

if epic is truely trying to give more to the consumers, why the hell hasn't Gears dropped in price yet???

[big isy]

The DLC Has been done for a while now, why are we still waiting?

[blazsox]

CliffyB needs to get his makeup on to make another stellar appearance on the XBL Marketplace.

Friggin poster boy.

[Mikewarrior]

The DLC Has been done for a while now, why are we still waiting?

It's all about Microsoft's approval... They also have timelines to release 360 games, DLC/Arcade - So that there isn't that big a gap between 360 content to keep people from wanting anything else... Like another console.

[big isy]

I'm getting sick of these huge DLC delays, if MS are that concerned over people emigrating from the 360 then they should pump out more content and at a cheaper price.

[Mikewarrior]

I'm getting sick of these huge DLC delays, if MS are that concerned over people emigrating from the 360 then they should pump out more content and at a cheaper price.

I fully agree... We need more than one XBL Arcade game a week. For many, that ONE Arcade game is crap, so they have to wait another week to see what else comes out... That's stupid, Microsoft can & should do better.

[big isy]

I don't even find that too bad. I just think any content, be it videos or demos or even written previews of games would be a great addition and would help gamers to see and get a feel of what awaits them.

[big isy]

Mark Rein interview (http://gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=107420)

"Do you expect the downloads to be free?

There's some external pressure on us to be apart of the economy there. You've got to ask Microsoft about that. It cost money to make it, let's put it that way."

I tells ya, they're eeeeeeeeevil.

[DJSteel]

Epic might use that excuse to overcharge...

[Antediluvia]

As much as we all love free stuff (especially Marketplace DLC), if you bought a game, you obviously felt it was worth what you spent on it. I believe some games were truly lacking (PDZ ought to have had those maps for free, but then again it was only $50 to begin with). Some games are worth every penny of the purchase price and any extra DLC should be treated like the separate product it is - if it's not worth it, don't pay for it. Oblivion is so packed I will never be able to explore it all, but for those who have played it through, the new content is an excellent addition to their experience. I know a lot of people complain about the price of the Shivering Isles ($30), but that's standard price for expansions, and this one comes with achievements and is 1/4 the size of the retail world. Not to mention Bethesda has released some content for free here and there.

I am excited about how Crackdown is being done - plenty of achievements and (in my opinion) enough content to be well worth the retail price. On top of that, they're adding DLC for free, which extends the life of the game. I just hope games don't get too used to releasing content after the release of the game...

[Mikewarrior]

As much as we all love free stuff (especially Marketplace DLC), if you bought a game, you obviously felt it was worth what you spent on it.

Some games are worth every penny of the purchase price and any extra DLC should be treated like the separate product it is - if it's not worth it, don't pay for it.

I don't believe I've ever paid for DLC, because most of the time certain parts are held back to charge/rape you later.

Gears of War for example... EPIC even stated that many Online modes will be left out of the game, but that they will come FREE. Well, now that seems not the case because of Microsoft.

Should I be happy paying $70 for an unfinished game?

[Antediluvia]

No, you shouldn't (haha we both bought the collector's edition) - especially if EPIC said that the DLC would be free. They better not change their tune!

Also, I admit I have never paid for DLC - most purchaseable dlc hasn't been worth it for me.

[Mikewarrior]

No, you shouldn't (haha we both bought the collector's edition) - especially if EPIC said that the DLC would be free. They better not change their tune!

They haven't changed their tune... They (EPIC) are saying that Microsoft is FORCING a charge.

[DJSteel]

that is exactly what I would say if I was going to charge for dlc..."MS is making us do it"... MS isn't making them do anything... Epic can pull GoW support and move to sony.. or atleast threaten that if they really cared...

[big isy]

that is exactly what I would say if I was going to charge for dlc..."MS is making us do it"... MS isn't making them do anything... Epic can pull GoW support and move to sony.. or atleast threaten that if they really cared...

Actually, you may be on to something there. Do Epic retain the GOW license or is that solely Microsoft's possession?
Epic should refuse to create content if MS decides to make them charge for it.

[DJSteel]

or just stop supporting ms

[big isy]

yeah.... that's a little drastic :loL:
(I still want my UT2K7 dammit!)

[blazsox]

Gears of War is an Epic trademark. MS merely paid to distribute the game (aka published it).

[DJSteel]

yeah.... that's a little drastic :loL:
(I still want my UT2K7 dammit!)

they don't actually have to do it...but they could threaten...but they won't..they'll say they fought with ms over making this dlc free...but in the end it will cost money...

[blazsox]

All they need to do is get a sponsor. Discovery Channel sponsored the first Gears DLC. Old Spice is sponsoring the Gamerscore challenge (paying for all the prizes - not that gamer pictures should cost in the first place for a simplistic .bmp file). Verizon (or Sprint, one of them) sponsored the past few free XBL weekends.

[DJSteel]

i don't want a damn sponsor...i want this to either blow up in M$ or Epic's face...because then some can be blamed in all of this...