Just when you thought it was over...

[CanadianZero]

http://jam.canoe.ca/Video/2007/08/20/4432638-ap.html

"LOS ANGELES (AP) - Paramount Pictures and DreamWorks Animation SKG Inc. will offer next-generation DVDs in the HD DVD format and drop support for Blu-ray, further complicating the race between the competing technologies.

Monday's announcement affects the upcoming DVD release of the blockbuster "Shrek the Third" and all movies distributed by Paramount Pictures, DreamWorks Pictures, Paramount Vantage, Nickelodeon Movies and MTV Films, as well as movies from DreamWorks Animation, which are distributed exclusively by Paramount Home Entertainment.

Paramount previously released movies in both formats.

"Part of our vision is to aggressively extend our movies beyond the theatre and deliver the quality and features that appeal to our audience," said Brad Grey, chairman and CEO of Paramount Pictures, a unit of Viacom Inc. "I believe HD DVD is not only the affordable high-quality choice for consumers, but also the smart choice for Paramount."

The competition between Blu-ray and HD DVD has kept confused consumers from rushing to buy new DVD players until they can determine which format will dominate the market.

Jeffrey Katzenberg, chief executive of DreamWorks Animation, said consumers seeking to switch to high-definition DVDs will be enticed by the content available for HD-DVD players. He added the lower price for the devices will appeal to the family market.


"Today Toshiba is making HD-DVD players available at $299, which is a first time that it's really been at an affordable price," Katzenberg said. "It's a game-changer, what they're doing, and it's why we decided to throw in with them."

Katzenberg said that, until now, the price for high-definition players was too high for most families.

"That barrier has just been broken and we believe it is going to, as I say, move down even further," he said.

Paramount and DreamWorks aren't the only ones choosing sides.

"Spider-Man 3" will only be available in the Blu-ray DVD format when it is released by Sony Pictures, while people with Blu-ray players won't be able to enjoy the action-thriller "The Bourne Ultimatum," which Universal Pictures will release only in HD DVD.

In terms of discs sold, Blu-ray has always had the lead. The format recently got a big boost as Blockbuster Inc. announced it would stock only Blu-ray titles when it expands its high-def DVD offerings this year.

Target Inc., the nation's second-largest retailer, said it will only sell Blu-ray DVD players in its stores in the fourth quarter.

With Paramount dropping Blu-ray support, Time Warner Inc.'s Warner Bros. remains the only major studio releasing movies in both formats.

Sony Corp.'s Sony Pictures, News Corp.'s Twentieth Century Fox, The Walt Disney Co., and Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer are releasing only in Blu-ray. Universal, owned by General Electric Co., backs HD DVD exclusively. "

[Sirharper]

It still is over. This is not much of an issue. Paramount is the same company that tried to resist DVD when it came out also.

[Da Rafsta]

It's not over and it won't be over soon....if it ever is over.

[AeroHudson]

It's not over and it won't be over soon....if it ever is over.


I would tend to agree. Although BluRay is clearly the front runner, I think these moves will draw out this battle for at least one to two more years. By that time, digital distribution could be a more attractive option for consumers vs. buying a brand new media player.

We'll have to wait and see how it all shakes out.

[DeaconBlade]

i hate format wars that's for sure. there are a lot of my favorite movies split in this stupid format crap. and i'm sure as hell not buying to players right now :lol: so i have to suck it up until these dumb companies stop making us choose formats.

in the end, they win and we lose.

[Sirharper]

Toshiba has a legitimate purpose in the format dispute but MS's involvement amounts to nothing more than meddling to antagonize Sony and Apple. Blame them for the format war. Without their resources this matter is resolved.

[UNSCleric]

Yes,, because Sony and Apple, the most greedy, proprietary loving companies in the world, controlling the main home entertainment medium would be just dandy. Say goodbye to lending movies to friends, or renting games or movies if Blu-Ray is ever a dominant force.

[Sirharper]

LOL!

Reality check. Paranoia.

Sony makes lots of video hardware, maybe even most of entire market. Apple has now passed Avid in the video production market. What does MS do? Well...they make Windows Media Player which is OK for streaming but utterly useless for even basic NTSC broadcasting.

[AeroHudson]

Personally, I wish Toshiba and Sony would have come up with a compromise prior to going public with the two technologies.

[Sirharper]

I don't know about that, competition is usually a better thing. But when meddlers like MS show up just to throw their weight into what should have always been the losing format thats just BS.

...for the record MS is by far worse than Sony and Apple when it comes to making closed proprietary systems. MS builds in spyware to their OS to a level that makes the Sony rootkit fiasco look pale.

[AeroHudson]

I don't know about that, competition is usually a better thing. But when meddlers like MS show up just to throw their weight into what should have always been the losing format thats just BS.

...for the record MS is by far worse than Sony and Apple when it comes to making closed proprietary systems. MS builds in spyware to their OS to a level that makes the Sony rootkit fiasco look pale.

In this case competition is not better since all movies are not available to all customers which is the expectation in the movie business. When DVD hit all movies that were printed on the new format were available to all next gen optical format owners. That is not the case now.

As far as MS being worse I think this is just a very subjective statement in my mind. My understanding is that BluRay is more corporate / anti piracy friendly and less consumer friendly and that is one of the reasons MS isn't backing it and I believe Apple hasn't made an official stance yet.

From a business perspective, you can't fault MS getting into the game either. By making it harder on Sony they help their own entertainment aspirations. I'm not agreeing with it but if I am a stockholder I want MS to do what they are doing. As a consumer I want one next gen format. I will admit that if there was only one out there right now I would be all over it. I love HD content.

[Sirharper]

I'm sorry but your conclusions are almost completely wrong.

DVD did have to compete with VCD and DIVX. It did not just walk alone into the market unchallanged. Plus LaserDisc had been around for about a decade already.

Apple was one of the founding members of the Blu-Ray Disc Consortium.

Actually if you're a shareholder in MS it would be in your best interests to follow the lead of major stakeholders and institutional investors in pressuring MS to sell or spin-off the multi-billion dollar losing entertainment divisions. If MS had never created Xbox or Zune your investment would be worth much more today. These feelings were loudly expressed at this years shareholders meeting. All other MS division make money and lots of it. The entertainment divisions are bringing the shares down noticable amount. A paid subscription to WSJ would allow to watch a video of the meeting.

[AeroHudson]

I'm sorry but your conclusions are almost completely wrong.

DVD did have to compete with VCD and DIVX. It did not just walk alone into the market unchallanged. Plus LaserDisc had been around for about a decade already.

Apple was one of the founding members of the Blu-Ray Disc Consortium.

Actually if you're a shareholder in MS it would be in your best interests to follow the lead of major stakeholders and institutional investors in pressuring MS to sell or spin-off the multi-billion dollar losing entertainment divisions. If MS had never created Xbox or Zune your investment would be worth much more today. These feeling were loudly expressed at this years shareholders meeting. A paid subscription to WSJ would allow to watch a video of the meeting.


Correct me if I am wrong but when DVD hit most studios were on board right away. I was not a technofile in that space then so I could be mistaken. When I bought my DVD player in 1998 I remember all the movies I wanted were there. Laserdisc never enjoyed the initial buzz or popularity of DVD and really never directly competed with them on side by side shelf space like beta / VHS and Blue Ray / HDDVD. Never heard of the other two formats you mention which probably tells you how supported they initially were. Again, I could be mistaken...I am just going off what I remember back in the day about 10 years ago.

Forgot about Apple...makes sense considering their stance on protecting their mp4's from an anti-piracy perspective with BluRay being more corporate friendly in this capacity.

As far as MS, they are trying to get into the gaming space. The Xbox was an experiment. They had the best online system and the more powerful product they just went about making it the wrong way and got into it late which are mistakes they did not repeat this year...depending on other companies for the chip sets and not making it cost effective.

Different approach this time around and as a result they are marching towards profitability. They took a step back with the $1 billion warranty extension but during this life cycle I have no doubt they will be profitable. The software attach rate they are driving is phenomenal and their accessories are selling well coupled with the fact they are the market leader now and will gain more momentum going into holiday 2007.

[Sirharper]

DVD and DIVX hit the market at the same time in direct competition. DVD did not have support of all studios, Paramount and likely others I'd have to check was on the side of DIVX (see a pattern here).

You do realize that the Xbox division NEVER profited from the original Xbox and now it further in the red than ever. It is nearly impossible now that MS will ever profit overall during the 360 lifecycle. In other threads I have posted just how many billions of dollars the division was in the red. Your conclusion there is wrong.

[Sirharper]

Here's some linkage for ya...

http://www.forbes.com/home/technology/2005/09/12/microsoft-management-software_cz_vm_0913microsoft.html

From FORBES...highly credible source.

Note that BEFORE 360 even launched the Xbox division was $4 BILLION in the hole. That has since gotten much worse. Last figure I saw was the division was $7 BILLION in the hole. I'll find a link for that, give me a second.

[AeroHudson]

DVD and DIVX hit the market at the same time in direct competition. DVD did not have support of all studios, Paramount and likely others I'd have to check was on the side of DIVX (see a pattern here).

You do realize that the Xbox division NEVER profited from the original Xbox and now it further in the red than ever. It is nearly impossible now that MS will ever profit overall during the 360 lifecycle. In other threads I have posted just how many billions of dollars the division was in the red. Your conclusion there is wrong.

I realize that overall was not profitable. However during the 2004 holiday quarter they outsold the PS2 and had a profitable quarter with Xbox sales and Halo 2. That proves they can do it. If the Xbox can do it with there completely non profitable model then the 360 can surely do it.

Prior to the warranty extension they were on track to be profitable in early 2008...more than likely that pushes that back a little say a year maybe a little more. The Falcon machines will drive profitability and sales due to lower price consoles. I think you are writing off MS a little too quickly in the console space and in regarding to the 360.

The only console maker that is cleaning up right now is Nintendo. Sony more than likely is out from a profitability perspective or at least it will be very difficult to do so. I think MS is in a better position than Sony right now and I would think you would agree. Losing over $200 to $300 per console with sales very slow is not a good sign.

[Sirharper]

Since that Forbes article was published add another $1.26 BILLION in losses for fiscal 2006 (June 05 - June 06).

http://www.businessweek.com/innovate/content/oct2006/id20061013_283856.htm?campaign_id=rss_topStories

So after fiscal 2006 Xbox was at least $5.26 BILLION in the red.

With all the quality issues it's more than fair to say that fiscal 2007 once announced will report losses of no less than $1.5 BILLION to add to that hole.

I am sorry but your view on any financial success here is just plain wrong.

[Sirharper]

I was always under the understanding that Xbox was never profitable in any quarter throughout it's life. I don't have my sources for that handy at the moment so I cannot dispute that just yet.

[AeroHudson]

Tell you what...I'll let MS worry about the financials and I will just play the games. MS is in this for the long haul...I have a feeling they will be around for a bit. If not, I will buy another console that has games I enjoy in the future.

[Sirharper]

Thats what I am trying to say. With all the pressure on them to dump the losses they may not be in it all that long. Investors want the losses to stop.

[AeroHudson]

Thats what I am trying to say. With all the pressure on them to dump the losses they may not be in it all that long. Investors want the losses to stop.

I wouldn't count on that...check the latest on sales for the 360...

http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/14334/July-NPD-Video-Game-Industry-Data-Xbox-360-Highlights/

[blazsox]

Personally, I wish Toshiba and Sony would have come up with a compromise prior to going public with the two technologies.

Whats funny about that is that both Sony and Toshiba worked on the Cell processor together, but at the same time were both developing separate media formats (Blu Ray and HD-DVD). Toshiba was not a big developer of the Cell processor, but nonetheless were an affiliate for the computer technologies.

[Sirharper]

I wouldn't count on that...check the latest on sales for the 360...

http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/14334/July-NPD-Video-Game-Industry-Data-Xbox-360-Highlights/

Nothing there was relevant to the discussion. At present the more they sell the more they lose.

You see sales of 2:1 over PS3 and take that to mean 360 is selling like hotcakes. It is not. Sales in the past 5 months have not exceeded 1 million. 360 have been in the 10 million units range for a VERY long time now. That is stagnation.

" In July, the software maker said it would spend more than $1 billion to repair hardware problems in the Xbox 360 console itself. At the same time, monthly U.S. sales of the console have lagged behind its top competitor, Nintendo Co.'s Wii."

[AeroHudson]

Nothing there was relevant to the discussion. At present the more they sell the more they lose.

You see sales of 2:1 over PS3 and take that to mean 360 is selling like hotcakes. It is not. Sales in the past 5 months have not exceeded 1 million. 360 have been in the 10 million units range for a VERY long time now. That is stagnation.

" In July, the software maker said it would spend more than $1 billion to repair hardware problems in the Xbox 360 console itself. At the same time, monthly U.S. sales of the console have lagged behind its top competitor, Nintendo Co.'s Wii."


Like I said...I will play the games and let MS worry about selling the machines and titles. The one thing you can't deny is that they are outselling the comp on games and peripherals...this race is not all console sales. As far as you claiming the more they sell the more they lose...that is just plain false. Of course they want to sell more consoles and of course increased sales are good for MS.

I have a feeling the August sales going forward will look very good with the price drop and the big titles hitting the console.

[CanadianZero]

bottem line right know:

Wii is kicking ass!

[AeroHudson]

bottem line right know:

Wii is kicking ass!


True enough. Nintendo has a winner on their hands!

[Da Rafsta]

i hate format wars that's for sure. there are a lot of my favorite movies split in this stupid format crap. and i'm sure as hell not buying to players right now :lol: so i have to suck it up until these dumb companies stop making us choose formats.

in the end, they win and we lose.

but you got an add-on for free!

[Sirharper]

LOL!!!!

Thats what I keep saying.